[hatari-devel] New home for Hatari (BerliOS will be closed on 31.12.2011)

[Deniz Turkoglu]

On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:07 PM, Eero Tamminen <oak at helsinkinet.fi> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On perjantai 30 syyskuu 2011, Thomas Huth wrote:
>> > > As we are using mercurial, bitbucket seems like a viable option.
>>
>> BitBucket seems a little bit too commercial for me - e.g. they only
>> allow 5 users for the free repositories. That's not much.
>>
>> > > We can also use this as opportunity to move to git (which proved to
>> > > be more popular than hg).
>> > >
>> > > Anyhow, there is also google code, github, etc... Depends on the
>> > > criteria for choosing.
>>
>> I'd say, the top requirements are:
>>
>> - Source code repository with a proper VCS (IMHO I would not use
>>   anything else beside Mercurial or git anymore).
>>
>> - Webspace for our Hatari website
>> - Enough space for storing our release-tarballs
>> - Mailing list
>> - Bugtracker (could be handled via webspace also)
>>
>> Apart from these top requirements, there are some other nice-to-have
>> features like forums, but since we hardly use them (and there are
>> alternatives like the Hatari forum on atari-forum.com instead), it's
>> not so important to have them.
>>
>> So I think we can drop Google Code - since they do not provide webspace
>> for project, do they?
>>
>> > if we were to use the most popular revision tool, I guess we would
>> > use cvs or svn (if we only take into account the number of users /
>> > projects using it).
>>
>> Well, agreed, for the development style we use with Hatari, we could
>> also use a centralized VCS like SVN again, but IMHO the distributed
>> VCSes are really really better, e.g. because they also allow offline
>> development etc.
>> CVS is really a pain, and in SVN I don't like the branch and tag
>> handling, so I'd really say we stick with a distributed VCS instead ;-)
>
> Couldn't agree more with all of above!
>
>
>> > I personnaly prefer to stay with mercurial, I don't see any point in
>> > using git over mercurial for our own development (which honnestly
>> > doesn't really make use of mercurial features that much in fact, we
>> > never really created branches or things like that to support several
>> > Hatari versions at a time).
>>
>> I am using git a lot at work nowadays, and I have to say, it's really a
>> very powerful and good tool. When we moved away from CVS a couple of
>> years ago, there were some reasons to use mercurial instead:
>>
>> - git is harder to learn, that still applies today, but now there are
>>   more people around who already know it
>>
>> - there was hardly any git support for Windows users ... I think that
>>   has also changed a lot during the last years.
>>
>> So IMHO we could also switch to git nowadays, but we don't really need
>> it for our development style, so we can also stick with Mercurial
>> instead.
>
> If somebody prefers Git, this plugin can be used as git / hg bridge:
>        http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/HgGit
>        https://github.com/blog/439-hg-git-mercurial-plugin
>
> There are also scripts for Git:
>        https://github.com/offbytwo/git-hg
>
>
>> > Let's see what hosting solutions we can find for mercurial, but I'm
>> > not sure sourceforge is the way to go (unless they really changed
>> > their policy lately)
>>
>> IIRC these were the main problems with SourceForge in the past:
>>
>> - They disabled access to the raw CVS repository, you could only used
>>   checked-out versions of the files ==> this does not apply anymore for
>>   distributed VCSes since you always get the full repository now.
>>
>> - They did not offer modern VCS at that point in time, SVN support just
>>   started, but neither Mercurial or Git were available ==> This has
>>   changed completely
>>
>> - The servers became terribly slow, releasing a tarball was a pain
>>   ==> As far as I know, they use faster servers now
>>
>> - The website became very hard to use while they tried to renew the
>>   design and handling of the pages ==> It's much better nowadays.
>
> It still has lots of adverts.  I think PCs and Browser have just gotten
> much faster at loading & showing them...
>
>
>> Most of the old pain points are vanished, so if we want to have an
>> "easy" solution (I mean, the old Hatari project is still registered
>> there), we should consider going back to SourceForge.
>
> ...but SF could be OK.
>
>
>> Apart from SourceForge, I think these are good alternatives:
>>
>> * www.nongnu.org : Uses pretty much the same web interface as berlios
>>   since both are derived from earlier versions of SourceForge, so we
>>   might feel at home there quite fast. Major drawback: They are very,
>>   very picky about the GNU philosophie, e.g. we would first need to
>>   replace Linux by GNU/Linux everywhere in our code and documentation,
>>   and IIRC they prohibit that a program links against a non-free
>>   library (which is not a problem for us yet, but we might need this
>>   one day for Pasti or one of the other disk image libraries).
>
> Maybe also:
>        http://alioth.debian.org/
> ?
>
>> * github.com or gitorious.org ... we should also consider those if we
>>   decide to move to git ... I think they are quite popular amongst git
>>   developers.
>
> I have some stuff at gitorious.org.  It doesn't have a bug tracker
> nor web page hosting (but you can have wiki pages) which rules it
> out.
>
>
>> * tuxfamily.org : This is currently my favourite... A very friendly
>>   hoster, I already have another project there (baller.tuxfamily.org)
>>   and made good experiences there so far.
>
> Did you base your project on original baller sources?
>
> I have cleaned up Baller sources here:
>  http://koti.mbnet.fi/tammat/hatari/sources/baller-src.tar.gz
>
> (I've ANSIfied the sources and fixed signedness & int size etc issues)
>
>
>>   Servers are located in Europe
>>   (==> fast for most Hatari developers), they offer Mercurial
>>   repositories, mailing lists and webspace. Only drawback: We would
>>   need to install our own bugtracker at the website, there are no
>>   pre-installed bugtracking services.
>>
>> What do you think?
>
> Tuxfamily looks very good, but it seems to live on donations:
>        http://www.tuxfamily.org/en/support
>
> I.e. it could get the same issue as BerliOS?

The discussion has branched off :) One quick thing to mention is that
we can use more than one service. I agree it is not easy to maintain
but just to keep in mind, there are projects that use google code for
bug tracking, github/bitbucket for repo, etc...

A neat feature of git would be gerrit[1] but I don't think anyone
provides it for free at all.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrit_(software)
>
>        - Eero
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